I Know How You Feel: Trauma Forced Me Into Resiliency

 Susan Snow’s story is one of tragedy, resilience, and healing. The daughter of an LAPD officer who was murdered in the 1980s, Susan has lived with the trauma and grief that followed for decades. On her podcast, she takes listeners on a deeply personal journey through PTSD, therapy, and self-discovery, sharing how she found the right therapist, navigated the healing process, and learned to reclaim her life. Honest, insightful, and deeply human, Susan’s conversations offer hope and guidance for anyone facing the aftermath of loss and trauma. 

susansnowspeaks.com 

Susan's Book: The Other Side of the Gun: My Journey from Trauma to Resiliency

Transcript

Kim, Host (00:01.123)
Hi Susan, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Susan Snow (00:04.278)
Thanks for having me!

Kim, Host (00:06.265)
So I know you've lived through things that most people don't talk about openly, and I was wondering if you could walk us right into one of the hardest chapters of your life and tell us what happened the night that your father was killed.

Susan Snow (00:19.458)
Sure, absolutely. Well, I was 17 years old. This was 1985. I grew up with a cop father. My dad was a Los Angeles police detective, robbery, homicide. On Halloween morning, he was getting ready to go to court. He was a lead detective on a case and he was testifying that day.

I, however, was a teenage girl wanting to go to a party that night. And so the conversation I had with my dad in the morning as he was getting ready for court was, you know, I wanted to go to this party with my boyfriend and my friends. And it was a school night. He said, absolutely not. Not happening. And so it was kind of, you know, one of those really uncomfortable kind of conversations with your parents.

And I was upset. I went to school and I was like concocting this idea of what I was going to do to get him to say yes to me later on that night. So the plan was that he would leave court, go pick up my six year old brother from after school care and come home. And once he got home, that's when I would talk to him again about going to this party.

My mom came home, I was getting ready and the phone rang and I ran to go get it. These were the days where the phones were still attached to the wall. So I went and I picked it up thinking it was for me and it wasn't. It was a lady from my brother's school and all she said was that there was a drive-by shooting and my dad was involved.

And my mom had come into the room and I handed her the phone as fast as I could and tried to listen into her conversation. I couldn't hear anything, but I watched her body language change and I knew that it wasn't good. She got off the phone and she said, we're going to the school. And I said, all right. So we got in the car and we drove to the school. And the way that the school is

Susan Snow (02:40.702)
set up is there's a parking lot that's right in the middle and this is a church school. And all the kids in after school care got out on the back side of the school. It was nighttime so it was after five o'clock and it was pretty dark outside but as we headed towards the back of the school it looked like daylight because

there were so many police cars and the lights on the police cars. And then there was an ambulance and I,

Susan Snow (03:21.472)
We just kept walking and we saw my dad's truck.

and we started running towards the truck. And the closer we got to the truck, we saw glass on the ground. And as we rounded the corner, there he was, partially covered up.

I watched my mom drop to her knees and start screaming. And I just stood there frozen in the street, not really able to comprehend what I was looking at. So what I did was hyper-focus on that ambulance. And my brain kept saying, why isn't anyone helping him? I don't understand. Where is everybody? Why isn't anybody helping him?

Pretty quickly, there were two officers that came up and grabbed us by our arms and kind of escorted us back into the school.

And we went into an office and I sat down and my mom got taken aside by some detectives. I was sitting there not knowing there was no information, so I had no idea where my brother was. I had no idea if he was hurt. Nothing and I was still trying to comprehend everything that was going on around me.

Susan Snow (04:49.056)
I still was not putting two and two together. I was still not processing what I just actually saw. And I overheard two ladies in the office and they were talking. They worked there. And the one lady said to the other that my dad was deceased.

And that is when my world cracked. That is when I finally realized this was my nightmare. Like this was...

I didn't know, I started feeling like I wanted to jump up out of the chair and run out of that room and as far from this as possible. And my body just felt like I was absolutely filled with cement and I couldn't move.

Susan Snow (05:42.794)
A little bit after that, my mom came back into the room and she said, I'm sending you with a neighbor.

And I know that I wanted to run out of there. I get that, you know, but there was a part of me, there was this, the kid part of me that needed to stay with my family, that needed to be with my brother, that needed to be with my family unit. And unfortunately I didn't get that. So I was sent with a neighbor.

to basically process everything that was going on. And I didn't know how to deal with it. was in the shock. I was in shock. Immediately I felt like, how am I gonna get through life without him? That was almost the very first thought that came to my head because

my relationship with my mom wasn't super healthy. And my dad was the go-between. He was also my sense of security. He was the voice of reason in my world. And he was a very present father, a present person, you know, and now he's gone. And so I'm trying to process all of this.

all at once.

Susan Snow (07:21.662)
And as we got into our neighborhood, you know, my neighborhood was very quiet prior. And as we got into the neighborhood, I realized that my entire block and around the corner were filled with police cars. And there were helicopters overhead. And I was in my my poor neighbors.

living room inconsolable. And I felt bad for her because she knew my parents for years. I was friends with their younger daughter and I, you know, that she's trying to, as an adult, she's trying to process everything and, you know, not know what to say to me. I was inconsolable.

All I wanted at that very moment, I had been dating this guy for three months and I just wanted my boyfriend. So I begged her to call him at work and she did. He was 19 at the time and she called him, but she didn't give him a lot of information, unfortunately. So when he showed up, it was pretty typical. You know, he showed up and he was like, grab your purse.

what hospital is he at? You know, where is he? Where's your mom? Where's your brother? Asking me all the questions. And I just couldn't spit it out. I couldn't say the words. But the more that he insisted that we go, I finally blurted it out. And I said, he's gone. And he said, what do mean he's gone? And I say, he's gone. He's not at a hospital.

And at that point I watched him drop down and start sobbing. And the two of us were just, you know, really trying to process everything that was going on around us. There was so much chaos that night. Neither one of us knew what to do, what our next steps were.

Susan Snow (09:35.594)
And when we finally did make that choice, you know, to go back home, nobody came to get me or check on me, unfortunately. So I made the decision to go home. And there were people in my living room I'd never seen before. I could hear my mom in the background, but...

Being a teenager, I just wanted to hide. Like I wanted to do the typical thing and just run into my room and hide, shut the door and leave this world behind. So that's what we did. We just ran into my room and shut the door and stayed in there. unfortunately back then there was real no, there was no talk about mental health.

and there were no resources for kids. Very little known about PTSD. In fact, back then it was called shell shock because it was attributed to military coming back from Vietnam and the wars. And so everything that was happening to me,

I had no idea. It's like you're thrown into this world where all of a sudden you're just like spiraling and you don't know how to get out of it. You don't know how to manage it. You don't know what's happening to you. So I just felt like I was crazy. And on top of that, unbeknownst to us,

We too were the target. This was a planned out assassination of my father. They planned it for months. And so that's why we had all the police presence. And which made it difficult because then I really couldn't grieve in private. There was always someone around. And...

Susan Snow (11:56.726)
We had that police presence for six days. I had bodyguards. I went from having this normal teenage life, getting ready to go to a party, or at least beg my father to go to this.

Kim, Host (12:18.394)
so much for one teenager and just one person in general to have gone through and you were so young when that happened. I'm wondering what was offered to you? I know like we talked about it was the 80s and it was called Shell Shack and PTSD wasn't really talked about and mental health wasn't really talked about as much as it is today. Were you offered any grief support at any point? I mean that's that's so intense for a kid to go through.

Susan Snow (12:48.106)
No, unfortunately, and I've had conversations with LAPD about this. Back then, they really didn't have any systems in place to support children. It was more about the widows and the widowers, the fallen, you know? And so there really wasn't anything that was in place to support my brother and I. And my brother was okay, like...

I could hear him crying the night I went home overnight. And so I knew he was okay physically. My dad actually saved his life. It was the last thing he did. And so when I heard him crying, I knew he was okay physically, but I just didn't have anything to go get up out of bed and go support him.

And I figured my mom would just do it, you know? And so I did see him the next day about 11 in the morning. And I was able to hug him and tell him I loved him and that we were gonna get through this.

Susan Snow (13:57.612)
But for my own self, didn't have that. And it wasn't until, I mean, I had my boyfriend, which thank God I had him. Most 19 year old guys dating a girl for three months would have high-tailed it out of there. But he recognized that my mom would do what my mom did and...

I needed a friend and I needed support. And so he stuck it out with me. Basically all I had at that point was my friends. And that's what I relied on. But obviously they're not professionals and they're, know, most people because of the way it happened, because it was so tragic, because it, you know, it wasn't something that had ever happened.

in the history of LAPD and it was on the news all the time. I mean, it was just, most kids my own age didn't know what to say to me. They tiptoed around me, like stepped on eggshells, you know, and which made me feel even more isolated. But I get it.

I mean, you just don't know what to say and that's normal. But it wasn't until after everything died down, the funeral happened and everything died down, that LAPD came to us and said they wanted to pay for a therapist for all three of us separately. And...

At the time, my teenage brain thought, if you go to a therapist, you're nuts. That was just how I felt, you know? But at the time, I really was, one, afraid of verbalizing everything that I was feeling at the time, because I felt like I was so out of control internally.

Susan Snow (16:18.09)
I felt like if I said something to an adult that they would throw me in a loony bin and call it a day. And so I didn't know how to advocate for myself. I didn't know how to verbalize what was going on with me out of fear. And I was also in a point where I was living in a fog and anyone who has gone through anything with grief will understand this, you know.

the days following the shock of it, you just, you walk around in a fog. So I always say that I was not living, I was existing at that point. So if you pushed me in a direction, that's the direction I would go. My mom came to me and said that, you know, when LAPD said they were gonna pay for therapy,

She basically volun-told me that I was going. And I thought, okay, I guess, sure, why not? And I went and I saw this gentleman and in hindsight, he was not ready. He was not trauma informed, nor was he trauma competent. And because of that,

He never asked me any questions about how I felt that night or anything in that he didn't wanna dip his toes in the weeds with me. I think he felt intimidated by maybe the situation, I don't know.

But going to him every week, I kept saying to myself, today's the day. Today's the day he's gonna say something, he's gonna do something to make me feel better. And it never happened. It was always about, you talking about my relationship with my mom, my relationship with my brother, my boyfriend in school, that's it. And...

Susan Snow (18:33.92)
I saw him for a year. And at the end of the year, he said, Susan, you're a well-rounded young lady. You're going to be fine for the rest of your life. And I don't need to see you anymore.

And I literally walked out of there thinking, huh, okay, well, I'm crazy. I've cracked. I'm going to have to live with all these things for the rest of my life. And I'm going to have to figure it out by myself. And I just did what I thought was the healthiest thing to do, which was to hide. And I created an emotional mask.

based on what people told me I was. So if someone said, hey, Susan, you are so brave, you are so strong.

That's the mask I created and I hid behind it. And everything in me was in total turmoil. You know, I had suicidal ideation. I had deep depression. I had anxiety through the roof, panic attacks, all these things that were on the daily, like that I dealt with, or they would come up or I'd be triggered or whatever it was. I hate that word trigger, but.

something would come up and I would just put that mask back on, you know, nobody in my mind, I didn't want anybody to see the inner turmoil that was going on. I was the brave Susan. I was, you know, the strong Susan. They didn't see anything. and I, I, I liked it that way.

Susan Snow (20:33.122)
But when I think about it, even writing the book, I realized that, my gosh, I could not see for myself what was healthy. I could not recognize the people around me or relationships, friendships that I had that were not healthy for me. And I became a complete people pleaser.

which is big with PTSD people and people who've gone through trauma. I molded myself to the person that that person needed me to be.

and took the authenticity of myself out of there.

Kim, Host(21:20.49)
I really like that you bring this up, that going through therapy in a way that you did that wasn't trauma informed, and then on top of that, being young and having a group of peers who didn't really know what to say, and that you created this emotional mask and it started to feel safer to do that than to actually have your emotions on the surface and authentically feel through what you were feeling through. But I like that you pointed out that it was unconscious.

Susan Snow (21:21.089)
Be cut.

Kim, Host(21:48.947)
It was like this unconscious decision that you made to protect yourself. And I'm curious, how long did this last for you? Was this like just through the initial grieving process or do you still hold on to some of these things?

Susan Snow (22:02.498)
like that for 14 years of my life.

Susan Snow (22:08.962)
And it was hard because even my boyfriend, who I ended up marrying and we're still together, there were parts of me I didn't let him see.

because in my mind, I kept saying to myself, this is my burden, it's not yours. I don't wanna put this on you, so I'm just gonna keep it all on me. And I did that with friends, I did that with my husband, I did that with everyone. But yeah, I we got married and I got to a point where I was ready to leave.

I felt like if I left geographically, if I left Southern California, I could go somewhere where nobody knew my story, where nobody knew what I had gone through. And maybe I could start over, you know, and I tricked myself into thinking that I can just leave that in Southern California and it would not follow me. You know, that was just a part of my life.

and I can move somewhere else and start over, so to speak. And so we ended up, we were married, we had two kids now and two small kids and we decided we were gonna move to Colorado. And so we did, we moved to Colorado in 97. And at the time I was working as a hairdresser and I worked at a salon that was very close to Littleton, Colorado.

I was working on April 20th of 1999. I had been doing a client's hair. I put her under the dryer and I went to the back room and popped on our little TV in the back room. And the live coverage, the news coverage of the Columbine shootings popped up.

Susan Snow (24:20.422)
and I stood there and I watched and I started having flashbacks. I saw the school, I saw the kids, I saw the police cars, I saw the ambulance, and everything came flooding back. I started to have a panic attack. I got cold, clammy.

My skin turned white and none of my colleagues that were back there with me knew anything about my story. So they were totally confused as to what was happening to me. And remember I was told I was going to fine for the rest of my life. So I didn't recognize what was happening to me either. I just couldn't understand. Like I had no kids that went there. We didn't live in the area. Like why would I have this reaction?

And so, you know, what did I do? I did what I always did. I put that mask back on.

And I kept telling myself, you know what? This isn't going to affect me. I don't, you know, that I'm not attached to this situation. Like I don't live there. I don't have kids there. I don't have any friends to have kids there. You know, and I kept telling myself that like, this is not going to affect me. I'm going to be fine. And you know, tomorrow morning I'm going to wake up and this will all be over for me.

And I went back and I did the rest of my clients for the day and everybody around me was a mess. They were angry, there were tears, is sadness. you name it. And I was stoic and I was in pretend land. I finished my day and walked through those doors to go to my car and everything flooded back.

Susan Snow (26:20.512)
And this time it was even more intense.

and I stopped sleeping and I knew that I was spiraling and this time it was scary because I had the suicidal ideation again.

Only this time I had an internal fight because there was part of me that just didn't want to feel this terrible anymore. I didn't want to feel this pain anymore. But then there was this part where I would remind myself I had two babies. I had two children and I couldn't leave them. And even though I didn't know what to do, I was just

I just struggled. I just, you know, I was spiraling. And my husband is a very smart man. And he saw this happening. And he met me at the door one morning and he said, you have two choices today. You either go get help or I'm putting you in a hospital. Because he understood this was a slippery slope.

and he was just as scared as I was. So I was at the point where I was so terrified of what I could do to myself that I put up that white flag and I surrendered. And I made an appointment for an initial physician. And I went to the physician and

Susan Snow (28:04.448)
He immediately put me on antidepressants because that's what they do. And then he handed me a business card of a trauma therapist. And he said, I want you to make an appointment with this therapist. And I literally laughed in his face. And I said, you know, I tried that 14 years ago and it didn't work. So what makes you think it's going to work this time? And he said, honestly, you don't have a choice.

So I said, all right, okay. I made an appointment with her and she did specialize in severe trauma and PTSD. And I knew it was different the first three minutes of sitting with her because she started to ask me the questions. The questions that I had longed to hear.

for years and I was able to feel like she was a safe space enough for me to be vulnerable.

and I was able to tell her what I went through at 17.

and what I was currently going through. And she listened intently and then she said, Susan, everything you've gone through since you were 17 is normal because you have PTSD.

Kim, Host (29:43.096)
Wow.

Susan Snow (29:43.778)
And I was like, wait, huh? Wait, I'm not in the military. I didn't go to war. Like, what are you talking about? And she said, no, she said, anyone who goes through any type of trauma can experience PTSD. But what you need to understand about that is that PTSD isn't something that just goes away. It's something you learn to manage.

And in that moment, I felt like I wasn't crazy. I felt like I had hope. I felt grateful for sitting in front of this woman who understood me, who met me where I was, who was my safe space, my person, that I could heal from this.

And I just, I was so grateful. I was so grateful in that moment.

Kim, Host (30:47.489)
I'm so glad that you, there's a few things that you just said that I want to just pause and go through because one, I'm so grateful that you described not only what PTSD is, but how it showed up in your body, especially with when you experienced Columbine, that disassociation you felt is so common when you're re-experiencing something like you said you went through in your mind. I don't know anybody at this school. Like I don't understand, but it's very similar to what you went through and that disassociation.

an emotional shutdown and re-putting the mask back on, I think is so common for people with PTSD and it's not something that's often brought up. So I really appreciate that you brought that up. And the other thing that you just talked about that I think is critical is finding that therapist. Because like you experienced early on, you can sit down with someone for a year and get exactly zero. And I think there's people who just want to get help so bad that they're just willing to

pushed their therapist, their credentialed, they were referred to me. I should stay, shouldn't I? mean, eventually they'll help me, right? And as you just pointed out, no, you waited 14 years to find that person who said, you're normal, you're good, and we're gonna figure it out. And I think that's so critical.

Susan Snow (32:04.768)
Yeah, mean, that's kind of my message is, you know, going through this process, going through this journey, what I realized was that it is important and that your healing is your healing. It's not your doctor's healing, right? So you have every right to interview your therapist. Make sure that they understand your type of trauma.

because there are some therapists that just wanna lump us all into one group and you can't because different traumas are different traumas and there are different modalities for those traumas and it's a different journey for those traumas. you know, I tell people it's really important and so when I hear people say, that didn't work for me, therapy didn't work, my answer to them is always you haven't found your person.

And it might take you a little bit. Now for me, I was very grateful to be only on my second therapist to find my person, but sometimes it takes you a little bit. And I think it's really important that, you know, that person that you, the person that you have is usually the one that really has a good understanding about your experience, your type of trauma.

and you know, you have every right to interview them.

Kim, Host (33:37.823)
Absolutely. And I just wanted to circle back really quick and ask you a few things about how the trial affected you and affected your healing process. So that's my first question is when the trial started, how did you notice your grief in your body and how did that shift things for you?

Susan Snow (34:06.594)
my gosh, I was in fight or flight big time, big time. There were two trials actually, because there were so many defendants. So I couldn't get away from it. It was on the news every night, every night. And then my mom attended the trial and she would come home every day and call me.

And my mom has no filter. She's a covert narcissist. So she would not understand that the information that was flying out of her mouth was going to affect me. And sometimes it was very detailed. And I'd have to say, know what, mom, I can't. I can't, you know?

my husband tried to shield me from things by telling me not to look at the newspaper or, know, we didn't have internet then. So just don't look at the newspaper and tried not to see the news and, know, but you couldn't get away from it. You just couldn't, you know, and.

Susan Snow (35:25.984)
There was a day where I literally just wanted to have, when you've gone through something like this, you get to a point where there are days where you just want some normalcy. You just wanna feel like a normal person, you know? And that this nightmare, you wanna give yourself a break from the nightmare that's occurring currently. And I,

got up and I was working as a junior secretary for a tile company. And I this was also a big aha for me about perception of who I was as a person. And you read the book, so you know where I'm going. I got in my car and everything in my bones was like, I just want to turn on the radio and listen to my favorite music on the radio.

and just kind of give myself this break from my house to my work. And, you know, and then work, I'll be busy and I won't be involved in all of this. And I got in my car and I started to drive and I turned on my radio. And after the first song, there was a news break.

with traffic and breaking news stuff and whatever. And they started talking about the trial. And I just, got so angry because this was supposed to be like my safe space in my car listening to music. And again, the trial invaded my space and I got to work and I was really angry.

I was friends with everyone that I worked with, well, except for my boss. He was kind of a jerk, I, or my boss's boss, I should say. I got there and I was walking through the warehouse and one of my friends that works in the warehouse, who happens to be a black man, tossed a box at me. He chucked a box at me.

Susan Snow (37:54.226)
And I turned around and I snapped at him and continued on and went to my desk, put my stuff down. And then my boss came up to me and he said, follow me. And I was like, okay. So I followed him and we walked up to an empty office and my coworker was standing there, the one that just checked the box at me.

And he said, my boss said, whatever is going on between you two needs to be hashed out. So I'm gonna put you in this office, you're gonna hash it out and you're not coming out until you do.

And I was like, great management skills. Okay, cool. Still confused. Had no idea what was happening. No idea. And I walked into the room in the office and he just kind of stared at me. And I was like, I honestly don't know why we're here. Like I honestly don't. And he said, well, I just want to tell you like, I understand why you checked the box at me, you know.

And I was like, you do? And he's like, yeah. He's like, I've been following your dad's And you know, I'm a black man. So that's why you, you got angry with me and I can understand that. And I kind of looked at him funny and I was like, what? And he's like, yeah, you know, because if I were you, I'd hate all black men. And I was like, what?

And I said, I'm really confused. said, first of all, did you have any, were you in the planning of the murder of my dad? And he's like, no. And I said, did you pull the trigger and kill my dad? And he goes, no. And I said, then you have, I have no ill will towards you. These are men.

Susan Snow (40:05.75)
that made the decision to take my dad's life. I don't care what color they are. These are men who decided to make a choice to take my dad out. It had nothing to do with you. It has nothing to do with the color of your skin.

You weren't the one. And he was literally like shocked that this was coming out of my mouth. And, you know, we talked a little bit more. We hugged it out. We left the office. And in that moment, I realized, my God, what do people think of me?

What is the story that people are saying about who I am as a survivor?

And it was a big lesson for me. Huge.

Kim, Host (41:06.608)
That's an incredible realization to have in those moments because like you keep saying, like there's so many different layers to your trauma and what's going on. And in addition to not only have to experience and see in all of these things, these men also had hits out on your family. So what was it like to be going through all of this, but in the back of your mind be

Susan Snow (41:30.368)
Yeah.

Kim, Host (41:34.882)
on high alert because you're in danger too.

Susan Snow (41:37.93)
Yeah, yeah, well, I had no idea, you know, about us being in danger and it was terrifying. Honestly, it was it was terrifying not only for me, but for my my boyfriend at the time, who was not quite my husband yet, because there were pictures of his car in front of our house. They had surveilled our house for months.

They followed all of us to see what our daily routines were. You know, it was just very convoluted. Like it was very, there was, was detailed. It was, you know, all of that. And again, that was just another violation, you know, for me, I felt violated. Not only did they take my dad, but the fact that they were watching me and during this time that I had no idea.

is something movies are made of, right? But this was my real life. This was the actual experience that I had. He dated a girl that I went to high school with. He was a 30 year old man and he was dating a high school girl and tried to get her to cozy up to me and for me to take her home for an overnight.

girl's night kind of thing and report back to him the schematics of my house. All of this came out. not only was I getting the information, but I was putting two and two together. I was replaying this process in my head.

And, you know, so it, it, it, it creeped up on the, had panic attacks again because I, it creeped up on my security again and that feeling that my dad isn't here to protect me.

Susan Snow (43:49.602)
um would come back up again. So yeah, it was a lot during the trials for sure.

Kim, Host (43:58.258)
It definitely is a lot. I lost my father to a heart attack and I thought that the grief would crush me. But having all of these additional things that you're walking through on top of just trying to grieve is so intense. And I know at the end of the trials, I'm not sure how you did this, but you looked your father's murder in the eyes and you gave a victim impact statement. And I'm curious when you look back on that moment,

and you had that opportunity to say your piece, did that give something back to you or did it take something from you?

Susan Snow (44:39.34)
I think at that moment...

It was...

Susan Snow (44:47.894)
I think in that moment, wasn't, there was a part of me that wanted to do this, but there was a part of me that was made to do this. Like my mom was like, you are gonna do this kind of thing. And so I really didn't have, I couldn't have my own opinion about it. When I did do it though, when I did look him in the eyes,

And I did say the things that I said. I was in victim mode.

And when you're in victim mode, I was telling him of all the things that he took from me when he took my dad. So I talked about the fact that my dad wouldn't see my graduation, wouldn't see me at prom, wouldn't see me get married, would not see his grandchildren, you know, all of these things that taking from me. And that is

that is victimhood, you know, and that's where I was living at the time. And I didn't feel any kind of relief or anything at that point. Again, very chaotic situation. The media was in that courtroom with us and...

his family was behind us and was calling his names and you know, basic whatever, right? And so it was more of I needed to say what I needed to say because he took all of this from me and I wanted him to know that.

Susan Snow (46:46.082)
It's not how I look at it now at all. know, someone told me when he was found guilty, there were three of them that were.

that were found guilty. And one of them has been released, was released in 2017. The right-hand guy is still sitting in prison right now. And the guy that actually killed my dad, he was on death row. He did get the death sentence, but unfortunately it was commuted because in California they got rid of the death.

penalty and created just life imprisonment with all those death row people. But Daniel Jenkins was found dead last year in his cell. They said suicide 38 years later. I don't know if that was the truth or not, but he's gone regardless. But before he was gone and before it was commuted, someone asked me one day like,

Do you want to be there when he is put to death? And I said yes. And the reason I said it is because I wanted to do the opposite. I wanted to go and look at his face and tell him he didn't win. I didn't give him the power and that I had a beautiful life. And he didn't take that from me.

And I was going to stand up as the survivor and not the victim.

Susan Snow (48:35.594)
and I just, didn't get that chance. But, you know, I wrote him a letter and I burned it. I didn't send it to him, but I got everything that I needed to say.

I took my power back by forgiving those men. Not, obviously not forgetting what they did, but for my own self, taking my power back and saying, no longer can hurt me anymore. You're not taking anything from my life anymore.

it was important for me. And that was definitely in my healing journey.

Kim, Host (49:18.018)
I love that messaging because there is so much power in grieving and in healing and forgiving. And there is a story that you told in your book that your mom had set you up on a lunch date with a nun and the nun asked you to forgive these men. And you got so upset and you stormed out and you told your mom, ever do that to me again.

And I appreciate this coming full circle to anybody who's in the middle of grief or the beginning of grief, because you do not have to forgive anybody right away. But like you just pointed out, the healing and the forgiveness and the moving forward, it's for you and it's not for anybody else. And I think that's such a powerful statement. And like we've been talking about, you did write a book about your experience. It's called The Other Side of the Gun, My Journey from Trauma to Resiliency.

Susan Snow (49:50.88)
No.

Susan Snow (49:58.816)
Right.

Kim, Host (50:10.596)
I'm wondering if you can read a little bit from your book for us.

Susan Snow (50:16.502)
Gosh, yes, I can. 

Susan Snow (51:40.066)
Okay, this is from chapter 22, and I think this was super important. During my journey, I kept hearing the phrase in my head, God only gives you what you can handle. It took me a long time to accept those words, but now I believe that no matter what the universe throws at you, you have the choice to learn from it and grow from the experience. I realize that it's often not easy.

The road is treacherous at times, but for those with PTSD, if you choose to heal from the trauma, the road will eventually get easier.

Kim, Host (52:21.299)
that there's another really powerful quote in your book that I think is really healing. And you say, being brave doesn't mean you have to tackle life's challenges alone. And that's really the message I'm trying to bring to the podcast is just how important storytelling is and just sharing as well. mean, it could be anything, writing a book, talking to your therapist, having coffee with a friend, anything like that, just having one witness.

who like you said, your person who you found, therapist, just having that one witness is so healing and so powerful. And so I think that messaging is so important that no matter what you're going through, you don't have to have a mask. There is somebody out there willing to witness you if you just give them a chance.

Susan Snow (53:07.616)
Yeah, I mean, the other the other thing that I have realized on this journey as well, and especially after the book is came out, that there are individuals walking around this earth right now that went through trauma that don't even realize it. And I met such a person for a little while, I started to drive for Lyft for some extra money and.

I have my book in my car. picked up a woman who was on her way to rehab for the third time. And she picked up my book in my car and started to read it. And she said, my God, you've been through so much. You've been through so much trauma. And she says, I haven't been through any trauma and, you know, started to talk to me a little bit. And as she started to talk to me, she said, you know, I don't know if this is trauma or not, but,

Basically, she told me she was raised by her mother, her and her brother were, her mom was a single mom. She was raised with her brother. And from the age of three to seven, the mother's boyfriend was sexually assaulting her.

and sometimes it would be in front of mom, sometimes it wouldn't. It happened to the brother too. In their family, there were multiple family members that were being molested by family. And so in her mind, this was like how you show love and she didn't consider it trauma. So as she's telling me this story,

and she's being vulnerable about it. I asked her, have you ever told this story to anyone else? And she said, no, you're the first person. First of all, I was just so, I can't even describe the feeling, but I was just so honored that she chose me.

Susan Snow (55:20.918)
to tell her story too.

And when I asked her that question, I asked her because I wanted to know, and this has to do with the rehab and the addiction.

Susan Snow (55:40.202)
why it wasn't addressed. So in my mind, I was like, why wasn't this addressed? And she said, you know, she told me what she told me. And I looked her in the eye from my review mirror and I said two things. I said, the first thing is I want you to know it wasn't your fault.

and that it was the fault of the people that made the choice to do that to you and your brother.

and that is trauma.

And I said, and I think the look on her face, she welled up when I said, it's not your fault. And sometimes people just need to hear that. But the second thing I said to her was, has anyone ever addressed or asked you if anything has ever happened? And she said, no.

not in the two times she went to rehab. And I thought to myself, my God, are you kidding me? So I said to her, here's the thing. When you go to this rehab for this third time, I want you to tell every professional that stands in front of you, every single one of them. And I want you to ask for help.

Susan Snow (57:17.122)
to heal from this because if you tackle this sobriety will become easier to attain because you are tackling the reason behind your drinking. And she was so grateful. I felt like I gave her that moment that I had when I found my person.

that I gave her the hope that she was gonna heal. And I hope, I hope that that helped her. I hope that that changed her trajectory. I gave her my book and I told her to read it while she was in rehab. Since she's gonna have a lot of time on her hands, I was like, I think you should read my book.

And maybe somewhere in there you can connect with something that I'm saying to you.

But that was an aha moment for me. That was a lesson for me to realize that there are people out there walking around who are unhealed because they don't realize that the experience they had was trauma.

Kim, Host (58:40.312)
And that's why it's so important to share. And I've talked to different people about this, about why as humans we have such a hard time verbalizing that we're struggling or verbalizing that we're having suicide ideations or that our body doesn't feel good and all of these different things. And it just came back with such a slew of information. People don't wanna be judged. They don't wanna feel like a burden. They don't know that what they experienced wasn't normal.

Susan Snow (59:03.681)
Yeah.

Kim, Host (59:07.445)
And so I just want to encourage anybody that's going out there to, you know, hear Susan's message and know you're not alone. And that, you know, speaking your truth is really important and find your safe people. And this is how this is how you heal. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. I really appreciate your time.

Susan Snow (59:22.282)
Yeah, absolutely.

Susan Snow (59:27.798)
Thank you for having me.